Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

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Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by Fujix »

I posted posted an article a while ago ( viewtopic.php?f=9&t=550 ) about how QLD cops were looking to take their service firearms home as self defence.

Thought it was maybe a first step in self defence being a valid reason for firearm ownership, pistols etc.

They're taking it up a notch now though talking about giving some QLD Police select fire R4's for home :shock:

SENIOR police officers in Queensland could soon be armed with high-powered semi-automatic assault rifles to protect themselves against outlaw bikies.

Police Commissioner Ian Stewart says the service is considering giving some district duty officers permission to carry R4 .223 carbines with telescopic sights in their vehicles.

"That is one of the options that definitely we are looking at," Mr Stewart told The Courier Mail.

"These are very, very high-powered weapons and they need to be handled very, very carefully by trained officers.

"We are looking at how we can best have them available should the need arise for an officer to have access to that type of level of weaponry."

The high-powered rifle is currently available to specialist units and police in isolated areas.

Police union president Ian Leavers has said officers believe the bikie crackdown has put them at increased risk.


If this went through, sends a huge message about self defence at home. Interesting anyway...

Source here: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/b ... 6757073500
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by heeple »

Being a off-duty cop is a slightly different situation, but it's boils down to self defence, and by a regular citizen at the time.

Two things they're hugely not keen on.

I think they'll be very cautious on doing this in case it opens the flood gates on people putting for self defence and giving them a foot hold.
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by jeener »

I dunno... I have mixed feelings about the self defence thing.

Maybe it's a bit hypocritical for them to have take home guns while we can't, but for one of these cops who are exposing themselves to bikies is a different situation too.

Tough call.
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by Norton »

jeener wrote:Maybe it's a bit hypocritical for them to have take home guns while we can't


Maybe? Completely.

I wouldn't ask for anything like the American system of no questions asked concealed carry. But it could be done so easily here with some common sense.

Have a sensible licensing process to filter out convicted crims.
Have sensible storage requirements.
Make self defence at home a legitimate reason.

If it's a home defence pistol, it stays at home. If you get caught carrying it around, you get charged.

Addresses the problem of home defence, and there still aren't any "guns on the streets" and they are so fond of saying.
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by hootshoot »

Norton wrote:Make self defence at home a legitimate reason.


Yep. I reckon home self defence should be allowed.

Not concealed carry everywhere, but it's hard to argue that people shouldn't be able to defend themselves inside their own home.
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Post by becks »

hootshoot wrote:it's hard to argue that people shouldn't be able to defend themselves inside their own home.


And yet the Greens are doing it every day... *sigh*
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Post by Deco »

Time to apply to be a police officer :lol:
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Post by Lorgar »

Deco wrote:Time to apply to be a police officer :lol:


Could be great except for, you know, the murder attempts :P
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by JC102 »

It's ridiculous that police can't take their firearms home. We trust them on-duty, why not off? :roll:
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Post by Warrigul »

JC102 wrote:It's ridiculous that police can't take their firearms home. We trust them on-duty, why not off? :roll:


I actually don't trust many of them on duty, I have watched annual qualification and it is scary. Then add in the amount of stress leave taken and it is even worse.

As I have said before, the government's answer to self defence requests is to say it is a simple matter that will be taken care of by a call to an on duty Policeman.

To those that say Police should be allowed firearms for self defence off duty I say: it is a simple matter for them to call one of the ON DUTY policemen to defend them.

If it is good enough for the average citizen then it should be good enough for any Government employee.
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Post by Norton »

JC102 wrote:It's ridiculous that police can't take their firearms home. We trust them on-duty, why not off? :roll:


It's not about that at all, it's the hypocrisy of the situation.

As law abiding citizens we're trusted with firearms for hunting or target shooting, and to not do the wrong thing with them.
As on-duty police officers they're trusted with using their service firearm appropriately.
Both fair enough...

When we go home however, we are not allowed to defend ourselves in our own homes with those firearms against someone who's made a conscience decision to unlawfully break into our house with who know's what intentions.

If someone is breaking in to our homes while we're there, we're expected to make a phone call and wait for someone else to come and protect us.

If that's good enough for us, it should be good enough for cops at home too.

If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for us.
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Post by puffnstuff »

Norton wrote:When we go home however, we are not allowed to defend ourselves in our own homes with those firearms against someone who's made a conscience decision to unlawfully break into our house with who know's what intentions.

If someone is breaking in to our homes while we're there, we're expected to make a phone call and wait for someone else to come and protect us.


Yep, IMO that's bulls**t.

Can't say that I'm an expert on this area but as I understand it we're supposed to defend ourselves if required with 'equal' force or 'reasonable' force or whatever the correct term is.

So if some junky breaks into my house I'm supposed to challenge him to a boxing match? I'm not a huge guy, what if the intruder has 30kg on me? I wouldn't have a chance...

Or if he breaks in with a screwdriver do I grab my flat-head and we have a dual?

I'm all for sensible gun laws, licensing, storage and all the rest. But if someone comes at you in your home, I reckon all bets are off.
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Post by Manimal »

Norton wrote:If someone is breaking in to our homes while we're there, we're expected to make a phone call and wait for someone else to come and protect us.

If that's good enough for us, it should be good enough for cops at home too.

If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for us.


Bingo.
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Post by on_one_wheel »

Bring on the R4 .223 carbines and give police a year round open seson to hunt outlaw bikers. People are talking about home defence... surely random home invasion isnt that much of a problem here in Australia ?
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Post by Blackened »

on_one_wheel wrote:Bring on the R4 .223 carbines and give police a year round open seson to hunt outlaw bikers. People are talking about home defence... surely random home invasion isnt that much of a problem here in Australia ?


It's not mentioned in the article originally quoted here, but from memory this was outlined in other articles - part of it was the story was that some officers were going to be able to take these firearms home for personal defence while off duty.

It's the double standard of defence at home that's ticking everyone off, not giving them them R4's as on-duty service weapons.
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Post by on_one_wheel »

Right o .... got ya, " Police union president Ian Leavers has said officers believe the bikie crackdown has put them at increased risk. " I'm happy for police to be armed at all times, there are some true scum bags out there and if a cop gets to nail a scum bag then we are all safer for it. After all police are concidered as cops even after hours.
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Post by Tonit »

on_one_wheel wrote:After all police are concidered as cops even after hours.


Really? Where does the whole on duty/off duty thing come from then?

Or have I see too many movies and not enough reality... ?
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Post by JC102 »

Norton wrote:
JC102 wrote:It's ridiculous that police can't take their firearms home. We trust them on-duty, why not off? :roll:


It's not about that at all, it's the hypocrisy of the situation.

As law abiding citizens we're trusted with firearms for hunting or target shooting, and to not do the wrong thing with them.
As on-duty police officers they're trusted with using their service firearm appropriately.
Both fair enough...

When we go home however, we are not allowed to defend ourselves in our own homes with those firearms against someone who's made a conscience decision to unlawfully break into our house with who know's what intentions.

If someone is breaking in to our homes while we're there, we're expected to make a phone call and wait for someone else to come and protect us.

If that's good enough for us, it should be good enough for cops at home too.

If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for us.


Fair enough.

Considering all the break-ins, home invasions that go on here you'd hope you would be able to defend yourself in your own home. Guess that gun control worked well... :lol:
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Post by on_one_wheel »

Tonit wrote:Really? Where does the whole on duty/off duty thing come from then?

Or have I see too many movies and not enough reality... ?


They are cops in the eyes of scum bags whether on duty or off duty, go ahead and make yourself a target for outlaw biker gangs and see how safe you feel.

They don't care if you're on or off.
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by Tonit »

on_one_wheel wrote:They are cops in the eyes of scum bags whether on duty or off duty, go ahead and make yourself a target for outlaw biker gangs and see how safe you feel.

They don't care if you're on or off.


Never mind, crossed wired here... I was just talking about in general 'on/off' duty. Not being targeted by some crim.
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Post by Warrigul »

on_one_wheel wrote:Bring on the R4 .223 carbines and give police a year round open seson to hunt outlaw bikers. People are talking about home defence... surely random home invasion isnt that much of a problem here in Australia ?


What rock do you live under? There have been at least six that readily come to mind this year, in every case the Police arrived AFTER the fact. In all the cases except the one where that sixty year old in Sydney was beaten unconscious and not discovered for 24 hours they arrived within less than an hour but until they did arrive the victims were without any form of defence. A home invasion is not headlines unless someone dies or they need a human interest story as the rest of the news is quiet.

Stilll we hear that defence is not a legitimate reason to have a firearm but the government is unable to defend its people, I don't consider Police arriving after the fact to take a statement and try and track down the criminal as defence, only post event management. It really sucks if the victim is yourself or a family member.

If it is adequete for the average joe to have to wait for a cop and deny them firearms for defence then it is hypocrisy for a cop to be allowed firearms for the very same purpose.

There is no evidence to say they are targeted any more than Judges, lawyers etc etc. If they feel threatened then get another job..

As far as declaring an open season on Outlaw bikers then pull your head in.
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Post by Farmjer »

on_one_wheel wrote:Bring on the R4 .223 carbines and give police a year round open seson to hunt outlaw bikers. People are talking about home defence...


Here is one of the articles on them taking their service firearms home for self defence - posted on couriermail.

There are others too if you care to search for them.
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Post by Bourt »

Warrigul wrote:It really sucks if the victim is yourself or a family member.


Yep, so many people are happy with it the way it is... Until they're the victim. Then it's a different story :roll:
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Post by JC102 »

Warrigul wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:Bring on the R4 .223 carbines and give police a year round open seson to hunt outlaw bikers. People are talking about home defence... surely random home invasion isnt that much of a problem here in Australia ?


What rock do you live under? There have been at least six that readily come to mind this year, in every case the Police arrived AFTER the fact. In all the cases except the one where that sixty year old in Sydney was beaten unconscious and not discovered for 24 hours they arrived within less than an hour but until they did arrive the victims were without any form of defence. A home invasion is not headlines unless someone dies or they need a human interest story as the rest of the news is quiet.

Stilll we hear that defence is not a legitimate reason to have a firearm but the government is unable to defend its people, I don't consider Police arriving after the fact to take a statement and try and track down the criminal as defence, only post event management. It really sucks if the victim is yourself or a family member.

If it is adequete for the average joe to have to wait for a cop and deny them firearms for defence then it is hypocrisy for a cop to be allowed firearms for the very same purpose.

There is no evidence to say they are targeted any more than Judges, lawyers etc etc. If they feel threatened then get another job..

As far as declaring an open season on Outlaw bikers then pull your head in.


There's been a lot more than 6, mate. Have a look at the police Facebook pages, they are weekly occurrences. And those are just the reported ones.

Have a listen to the police radio online sometime. It can be interesting to say the least. :lol:
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Post by agentzero »

JC102 wrote:Have a listen to the police radio online sometime. It can be interesting to say the least. :lol:


Ah yes, busting out the UHF radio for a nights entertainment.
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Post by Kaine »

The thing that hasn't come up yet, is escalation, cops get better guns, so the crims follow suit.
The biggest reason why I am against this move, is that I don't trust cops, whether on or off duty. This is not against anyone in particular, if you are a cop reading this, good for you. But when you consider that if you wish to join one of the armed forces, you mast pass a psychological evaluation. Cops do not, and these are the people that are supposed to be protecting and serving the people. Though in this day and age they really only protect and serve politicians.

Don't get me wrong, I have met some fine police officers in my time, but I have also met quite a few that should never have been allowed on the force. Those are the ones I am worried about, one day when the bubble bursts, or the stress gets too much, something bad is gonna happen. It usually does.

Don't worry, even I think I am paranoid. :P
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Re: Select fire R4's for off duty QLD police soon?

Post by JC102 »

Kaine wrote:The thing that hasn't come up yet, is escalation, cops get better guns, so the crims follow suit.
The biggest reason why I am against this move, is that I don't trust cops, whether on or off duty. This is not against anyone in particular, if you are a cop reading this, good for you. But when you consider that if you wish to join one of the armed forces, you mast pass a psychological evaluation. Cops do not, and these are the people that are supposed to be protecting and serving the people. Though in this day and age they really only protect and serve politicians.

Don't get me wrong, I have met some fine police officers in my time, but I have also met quite a few that should never have been allowed on the force. Those are the ones I am worried about, one day when the bubble bursts, or the stress gets too much, something bad is gonna happen. It usually does.

Don't worry, even I think I am paranoid. :P


What do you mean cops don't have psych evaluations? They are psychologically tested during the medical testing stage.
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Post by Aster »

Kaine wrote:But when you consider that if you wish to join one of the armed forces, you mast pass a psychological evaluation. Cops do not, and these are the people that are supposed to be protecting and serving the people.


Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Surely there is some sort of 'psych profile' as part of becoming a fully fledged officer?
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Post by JC102 »

Aster wrote:
Kaine wrote:But when you consider that if you wish to join one of the armed forces, you mast pass a psychological evaluation. Cops do not, and these are the people that are supposed to be protecting and serving the people.


Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Surely there is some sort of 'psych profile' as part of becoming a fully fledged officer?


There is, mate. After you complete the entrance exam your general health is tested, both psychologically and physically.
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Post by Kaine »

You know, it looks like I am going to have to apologise. They do in fact have to pass a personality assessment, some form of two page questionnaire. With the possibility of a follow-up with a shrink.
Though the ADF has you sit down with a shrink on your assessment session.
Looks like I was given bad info. Not that it particularly changes my view.
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Post by Antie »

Kaine wrote:Though the ADF has you sit down with a shrink on your assessment session.


Fair enough.

Not saying being a cop would be all roses, but being a career soldier could put you in some real bad spots obviously.
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